Im looking at setting up a large scale training operation for my own centers. What is everyones reccomendation for the bes schools/companies to work with to turn Indian TSR's into perfect english speaking, accent neutralized, american english outbound sales pros. I dont see a reason why an Indian cant get the same SPH as an American and i am trying to figure out the best training setup to make this happen...any ideas? Rich@ZenFinancial.com

Richie

>>I dont see a reason why an Indian cant get the same SPH as an American


Many of my colleagues have commented on the cultural and language construction reasons that they have encountered with Indian agents.

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When using English there is sometimes a lack of ability to grasp the informality required for a particular situation, all situations being tacked in a formal manner - this is cultural.

The responses of the customer are taken literally and there is no mild 'banter' or humour attached.

There is a lack of empathy shown. Having said that sincerity may not be what you are looking for.

The customer is king and the agent frequently behaves in a very subserviant way, this may lose credibility with the customer.

There is frequent over use of the customers Surname.

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It is often the case that American designed sales campaigns fail in the UK, they simply transpose the call script and it falls flat for the similar reasons.

I reckon if you find any training and development supplier who has an appreciation of these issues and does not focus on accent neutralisation but looks at what is underlying the comprehension, fluidity and language construction issues you'll be doing well.

All too often its a case of neutralise the accent (frequently caused by the listeners lack of exposure to the accent) and assume every nationality approaches a common language in the same manner.

Its just not the case, ask any Brit who hears the term "Have a nice day".

Being fairly new to the call centre industry I was surprised to learn of exisiting OUTBOUND call centres in India. I was well aware of the inbound activity but outbound seems like a gamble. I am assuming that outbound calling is being into the UK/US and Canada. Due to the problems outlined below, I am curious to find out just how effective the calling is? I realise it is most likely a lot cheaper, but is this not counteracted by the differences in speech (inflection/accent/humour etc). How much success have people been having with outbound calling from India into the UK? Any info that can be offered on this would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Some people falsely believe that the momentary pause before being connected to a live call through a predictive dialler is due to a call originating in India and either a hang up or are rude to the caller and hang up.

Z

We make outbound telemarketing calls from India to the USA and have about the same SPH rates as our US counterparts.

We have not called UK. I am aware that there are a few centers calling UK successfully. However not many in outbound to the UK.

But, yes, agents in India do need to undergo special training to induct them with the cultural and speech inflections etc. of the forein markets they cater to, it works.

Hi all,

I think with contributions from telemarketing call centers worldwide, this topic is worth of continuing.

Well, the subject matter is why Indian Agents are not in a pos. to achieve the same SPH as in USA.

The area of skill set and training is first and foremost to play, is there any chance that the call -lists or the leads used is different?

Another point to look at is the script, objection handling methods etc.,

A recent survey report says that India earned 25% of its revenue from outbound telemarketing sector in the year 2002-03.

Is there any benchmarking done globally on SPH?

Malick,
Chennai, India.

Malick,

Once again you are right. I think we should start a campaign comparison forum on here to see what it could be worth and if it would be useful. We are working on some possibilities as to training mechanism and bringing over sales training from the US, personally I think the best way for an outbound training to be brought to india would be by first bringing in Indian trainers from the US that understand the cultural aspects as well as the small talk aspects which need to be separate for each country. Most call centers today in India are technically equiped and do not invest they need to in training which is simply not being done.. I think the proper training would be first accent neutralization as that is a central issue, the second being Americanization of dialect and dialouge then finally seperate training for sales training. 3 days of training and sticking someone behind a phone in india and despite the fact that many of these TSRs even have masters degrees and advanced degrees, an in depth training needs to be administered to ensure that agents can call into the US, should they be calling into the UK, different training should be needed as they have different dialects and speaking customs. I think agent training should be made 1-2 months and then agents should learn to specialize in certain types of campaigns to make it more like an industry then like a turnstyle. There needs to be room for advancement and human and corporate investment on behalf of the center owners. It is too late for the US call center industry as it has already been commoditized but i think there is still hope for the Indian industry to actually create a real industry with carear workers as the US very very few agents become carear agents and even less make it into management positions, clear advancement needs to be in place and good working conditions.

Any thoughts?

Hi

Its interesting to hear the kind of proportionate revenue generated by outbound calling in India. I had no idea that the revenue generated by India's outbound telemarketing industry was so high! Can I ask you, Malick, where this information comes from and is it possible that I can get a hold of the report? My only thought is that if Indian agents are not able to produce the same SPH as their American counterparts, then there seems to be an awful lot of outbound calling going on despite some relatively poor results. I realise there is a learning curve and with the right training (as Rich points out) the results should improve but it does seem high. (Not that I'm doubting you of course!)

Also, Malick, just to point out that I had a look at the Arithma e-brochure - see page 4 - I think the word "customer" is spelt incorrectly (plus it should be plural) - you see, we are all helping each other on so many different levels!!

I no other industry would one consider that one knew so much about training without actually speaking to a training department or specialist but ints commonplace in call centres for everyone (especially operations personnel) to decide training policy and wax lyrical about thier knowledge of training.

Lets look at this from a business perspective

I think the proper training would be first accent neutralization as that is a central issue,

>>>Where is your analysis of need and cost benefit? Thinking is not a strong enough reason. I throughly disagree with your initial unfounded assumption.


the second being Americanization of dialect and dialouge then finally seperate training for sales training.

>>> See again


3 days of training and sticking someone behind a phone in india and despite the fact that many of these TSRs even have masters degrees and advanced degrees, an in depth training needs to be administered to ensure that agents can call into the US, should they be calling into the UK, different training should be needed as they have different dialects and speaking customs.

>>>> You are on the right track here

I dont see a reason why an Indian cant get the same SPH as an American and i am trying to figure out the best training setup to make this happen

I have already outlined some of the reasons secondly you are coming from the perspective that traiing is the one and ONLY solution and the ONLY factor that will influence SPH. When it doesnt work it will be easy to blame it on the trianing but unless an comprehensive training needs analysis is completed this assumption will be fundamentally flawed.

Good luck but please talk to some training departments before persuing with assumptive knowledge of training, delivery and how it can influence the bottom line.

JON BLAND,

Thank you so much, yes our e brochure needs more spell checks. Nice you pointed out.

The report that I referred to is available at:

http://www.tatatelecom.com/outsourcing/Featured/BPOSegmentsDec.asp

If you experience problems in getting in to the document I can mail it for you. Also I reproduce below the relevant part of the report:

"India’s sunshine BPO industry talks today of moving up the value chain by way of delivering services like equity research, content development or clinical research and trial. However, in terms of sheer numbers, telemarketing still remains one of the strongest bastions of the BPO fiefdom having contributed nearly 25 percent of India’s total BPO pie in 2002-03. Many of bpOrbit’s Top 15 companies like WNS, ICICI OneSource, Wipro Specramind, GTL and EFunds are significantly involved in this service line.
The common verticals where the maximum telemarketing is happening is BFSI (selling credit cards/insurance), retail and airlines (increasingly entire travel and tourism). Apart from telemarketing products, offshore Indian players are also involved in inter-related services like catalogue sales, direct response television, sales lead generation, database cleaning and updating, third party verification, record verification, fraud detection /prevention calls, welcome / thank-you calls, continuity sales calls as well as any kind of message delivery. There are other esoteric work also being done—like Zenta doing fund-raising for charitable organizations in the US. "

Please note that the report mentions about 2002-03 and next year report is yet to come. FTCs new regulations put forth and getting attention late in 2003.

Malick

great web site! has more information than I'll ever need.

Cheers
Jon

My two pennyworth.

I feel that the major difference between US and the rest of the world (in my limited experience) is that the US telemarketers are professionals (not inferring that the rest of the world are not) who are rewarded in line with the value of the amount of revenue that they generate. I have heard of houses, cars and holidays being given as incentives.

Call centre managers know their equipment and every aspect of their call centre, they generally manage all aspects of the campaign and are rewarded accordingly, and as a business partner they tend to go the extra mile to make the campaign a success.

What else influences? The whole US operation is slicker and more established, not only the call centre itself but all of the associated infrastructure such as direct mail, marketing and most importantly US citizens seem to be much more accommodating to being contacted in this way. UK people hate the falseness of scripting where Americans seem to like the whole "have a nice day" ethos and the UK market is only now starting to recruit full-time professional advisors rather than part-time seasonal / transient workers.

As the worldwide contact centre market matures you will naturally have a greater pool of qualified, skilled staff who are rewarded, retained and bring value to the customer experience which can only be good for all concerned.

Regards,

Ian

Have yet to find a perfect method of voice training Indian staffers. My favorite way is to choose people that walk in the door with minimal accents. I recall especially one young lady who had lived in India her entire life but sounded like she was from New Jersey. She had no idea how she acquired said accent and I surely don't either.

Long story short, interview candidates by the busload and only short list the finest of the bunch...


Thanks,
Steve Howell
showell@telegenisys.com
925.825.1122

Hi,

Something what Ian and Rich are talking about has hit home so hard when I look at the clients that our company is handling at the moment, their requirements and survey the floor, one side of which is where I am typing this from right now.


Having just joined my new company after a 3 month hiatus here in a new city in India and comparing the same to the call center I worked with Miami, I feel there is a lot the Indian call center industry has learnt and still has to learn, especially the fact about the need and the type of need for knowledgeable American culture and accent neutralization training.

Although I have seen a few training modules that have worked very well, a lot of interaction on the floor has given led me to believe there is much more into it - namely Implementation.

I have seen agents (inbound or outbound), who as soon as they come onto the floor forget all about their accent training because of

a) A lot of existent agents tell them - "Hey, get the sale man - can he understand you - so cut the accent"

b) Too much pressure and hence concentration on calls due to which the agents forget their accents.

c) The training just wasn't extensive enough and there wasn't enough time to practice.

The ways to resolve the same is to drive these factors on the floor through the TLs and line trainers who themselves are guilty of laxity on the same while also making sure the culture is started off in a pilot team of any project so that it has a cascading effect.



Another major fact is that a lot of these call center agents are not really in it for the career, hence the companies are not really comfortable training them for extremely long periods of time.

Also, Indian culture - A lot of these agents are not in it for the career and even then, if we understand that a lot of them are college-going or just out of college age range they are neither committed nor professional enough. (When one talks about college life in India - they generally mean a very lax attitude to everything)

Would love to say more but since this is my first posting here after a very long time, I am just hoping I have not made a fool of myself!!!!!

Hi Richie

I donot agree completely to your statement that Indian TSR's dont get SPH as compared to US TSR's.But I do agree that they lack on training, not only the voice accent but also the campaign specific training.
Recently i got the feedback "Quality Report" from my client, which shows
the performance as per following :

Voice Inflection Good
Looping Skills (taking control) Good
Professionalism Good
Pronunciation Good
Aggressiveness avergare
Building rapport with customer Good
Listening Skills average
Rebuttals till Customer hangs up average


What i have observed that agents usually misrep the customer due to high pressure for sales/performance. Like for eg they sometimes pitch to wrong number,or some other family memeber.this is just bcoz of pressure for sales.
However I do agree that they also need to know more about american culture bcoz that makes the customer feel more comfortable while talking to TSR.

Pls feel free to discuss further.

Thanks
Sid

Why are we trying do remove accents from our agents? Is it an attempt to provide better service for our customers or just an attempt to provide a faceless corporate identity. What is the difference if you live in liverpool and get a call from an outbound an agent with an Indian accent than a outbound agent with a strong Glaswegian accent, who could both be based in a center 5 miles from where you live?

Why are we trying do remove accents from our agents?

>>>Because there is a notion out there that customers cant and dont understand Indian accents and are unwilling to try. Coming from the UK where Indian, Pakistani and Sri Lankan accents are common I know that I find this concept and its tacit acceptance quaint and old fashioned. Its not the accent that counts its the comprehension of it and if your listeners have not been exposed to the wide variety of accents we have in the UK then given economics its simpler to 'fix' the speaker rather than adjust/educate the listener.

In all likelihood it may not be the UK that is driving this notion it may stem from other countries who do not have such exposure to other accents and their speaking of English.

I'm with you Nick, the generally acknowledged harder to comprehend accents in the UK are Glaswegian, Belfast and Geordie. In the UK you cannot discriminate on cultural grounds in the workplace and there is a strong argument that your accent is part of your upbringing/culture and heritage. You are therefore on very sticky ground when you try and tell a call centre agent to "lose their Geordie accent", however you can make agents aware of the importance of clarity, vowel sounds, repetition and the listeners difficulties. If we look at the Welsh example the language itself is positively encouraged - and I'm all for that as well.

I love the differences that accents, colloquialisms, and intonations create and rejoiced in the fact that the Greeks spoke their native languague (as well as others) when announcing The Games this week. Vive la difference - or whatever you say in Greek!

I find this discussion extremely good. just to add in about UK outbound work, I am of the feeling that India is equipped to UK more then the US due to the cultural proximity. Other then some of the Scottish accent there is usually no problem with customer understanding.

I say this because I have been handling UK outbound sales for the last year and half and find that we are good in UK if not better in comparison to that US. i have experience in selling CPS connection to Technical support up selling to customer surveys and lead generation. We always end up having SPH any where between .5-.7 aggregate in the first 8 weeks.

I think this is testimonial enough that India can do good in UK too

Sid,

I agree training in India is probably poor both in its delivery, transference and content. With travellers and backpackers designing and delivering it, little wonder. However from what you've posted your client's assessment of skills is also flawed and may be fundamentally linked to the progession of this training.

Devlopment cannot occur with such gerenalised comments and unconstructive feedback - For instance;

Professionalism - Good - in what area? Against what criteria? How good is good?

Agressiveness - Average - Why on earth is this measured? Thats a measure of hard skills not soft ones! Does this mean the more aggresive the agent is shouting, and banging his/her fists the better they are? Or the less agressive the better the agent is? Is it a measure of how argumentative you are?

Voice inflection - Good - in comparison to what? The International Dialects of English Archive http://www.ku.edu/%7Eidea/northamerica.html lists 31 American accents, not including the Standard American Accent, the currently accepted norm as espoused by Hollywood voice and accent coaches and heard on TV screens worldwide. Why assume there is such a thing as a norm. This negates all other inflections and dialects, Aussie, Kiwi, S African, European inflections - is the client seriously saying that only their interpretation of what is a 'good' inflection is the only accepted norm??

As for rebuttals til customer hangs up...words fail me. Is you client actively seeking to objection handle the customer throughout until the customer actually hangs up?

Wiht clients like this who little wonder we have an image problem.

It all comes down to comprehension and not some vague norms. Dialects are fluid anyway and subject to fads anyway. Estuary is 'in' Standard American is 'in', but it'll change.

Lastly I disagree that knowing and being able to talk about culture makes the customer more comfortable - thats an assumption - ask customers what makes them more comfortable, culture or comprehension? I'd rather talk to someone who can understand and listens to me and where I'm coming from rather than someone who knows about my culture but chooses inappropriate references that have no value to me.
Rapport building is what we are dealing with here and this is far outweighed by not listening to the customer. Start listening and being interested and you build rapport. You'll never build rapport just knowing about The Dodgers latest score or Sex and The City alone.

"Other then some of the Scottish accent there is usually no problem with customer understanding."

Behave yersel' ;-)

On an aside note, it used to be argued that Scotland was a prime location for contact centres due to the clear accents - but, as a Scot myself, I often find that a wee bit difficult to believe. I have to say I do like to hear a good female geordie accent when I call...

Sunil, how do you find the reaction from callers to Indian accents? For my own part I find it sometimes difficult to understand the accent myself. Must be a Scottish:Indian incompatibility or somesuch. :)

John