David I knew you would touch upon relationship marketing. The contact of customer has more to do with his needs than what the agent can give. In that sense by merely calling the call centre the customer is checking the credentials of the enterprise. Do they really provide satisfaction? this depends on the customer interaction and what customer feels.

However in the book "Customer Retention" by Lowenstein, author has clearly illustrated the difference between customer satisfaction and retention. The call centre may satisfy the customer but it does not mean there will be no attrition of customer. If call centre can not add value to product or service then the customer has every reason to defect for he is not getting value for money.

Any more comments???

Vedula

I have not read the book to which you refer so cannot comment about anything he says.

What I can comment on is the comments you make.

The following is again taken from something I wrote some time ago.

“There have been many weighty and learned tomes written about what constitutes loyalty and I have no doubt they are all correct. After all they are all far cleverer than I. However, until I did the work below, I had never seen a pragmatic business headline describing what exactly loyalty is. So after many hours of work and many beers consumed (loosens the mind) this is what emerged. I know it’s a ‘blinding glimpse of the obvious’, but like so many ‘simple’ things it is carefully crafted and a definition that can be used in any business whilst conveying the few messages that really matter. The definition of loyalty is:

“When a person chooses to do business with your company over all others time after time."

Let me explain why this works, a few observations which, to me, are facts of business life people need to be aware of:

1 - Loyalty can only exist between people. Just think of the last time you recommended. I can tell you it was based on how you were made to feel by an individual NOT by the company.

2 - Companies do not do business. People from one company do business with people from another. Regardless of medium it is a person or people that design and manage interactions. So what comes through is the personality of that person and that’s the thing you hang you hat on.

3 - People always have a choice. At the very least people have a choice whether to or not. More often today they have more choice than ever about who might supply them as a direct consequence of the march of technology.

4 - Long term loyalty, advocacy, can only come from continually delivering complete satisfaction. Single/individual instances do not constitute loyalty as trust and confidence are essential ingredients of loyalty and these can only be built over time.

Customer Satisfaction

Point 4 raises another question: what is satisfaction? Before we can progress, it’s vital that the difference between satisfied and satisfaction is clarified. Very simply, one can be satisfied - it is more akin to process. One has to experience satisfaction - it is more feelings based.

Before we can deliver satisfaction, we have to understand the basic construction of all human interactions - especially obvious in Customer Service environments. Everyone initiating an interaction, regardless of the medium (telephone. Web, face to face, written word etc), has at least two motives. These are:

1 - The Practical Motive (tm). This term combines Cognition and Behaviour, as we have already seen, and is the overt/displayed/stated reason for the interaction

2 - The Emotional Motive (tm). This term is really Affectation. As we have seen, the real driver, the real reason for the interaction and rarely stated.

In order for your customers to experience satisfaction, both motives have to be satisfied.

The reason customers seem so ‘fickle’ is because business focuses its resources on the Practical motive alone and so leaves most customers with unfinished business. This, in our view and based on our research, is the reason people answer Customer Satisfaction Survey scores with either ‘satisfied’ or ‘very satisfied’ most of the time and yet continue to move! This is because they have not experienced the feeling of true satisfaction that can only be engendered by satisfying both the Practical and Emotional Motives.”

This is what I suspect Lowenstein is referring to. Consider this. You walk into a shop and ask for a pencil. The assistant loads it intoa crossbow and fires it into your chest…

According to current call centre standards, the customers need has been satisfied. They got their pencil. According to current call centre standards they can tick their box as a ‘satisfied’ customer. In fact, they might even tick the ‘very satisfied’ box because the customer got it extremely quickly… The question of retention then kicks in. This particular customer will never go back as the manner in which the pencil was delivered did not deliver him any satisfaction at all – I can see the surprise on you face!

The company concentrated on doing only what was asked for from a Practical perspective and paid no heed at all to what the customer was going to feel like subsequently (he was ok after thethird operation )

You talk about “adding value” but please do not fall into the same trap as others. Its not about ‘adding’ anything at all. We (as human beings) DO NOT want something for nothing all the time – that’s not what a surprise is!

Neither is it about Value For Money. VFM ONLY becomes an issue when we cannot gain real satisfaction and we have to refer to something tangible when complaining. Price is always at least # 4 or 5 in anyone’s list of priorities. VFM for me is that same as when someone leaves a job. They leave primarily because they no longer FEEL valued and recognised. At the exit interview though everyone says it’s the MONEY because its not cool to talk about feelings at work.

What we want as human beings (regardless of race, colour or creed) is to be VALUED and RECOGNISED. By doing this alone we FEEL ‘complete’ as Gestalt refers to.

It's so flipping simple. Why oh why do we have to complicate matters so?

Recognising and valuing the individual and dealing with both their Emotional and Practical Motives (tm) consistently will deliver the Holy Grail of Loyalty - end of story.

David

Hi David.

You said that customer loyalty is "when a person chooses to do business with your company over all others time after time" - but have you considered that perhaps the reason some customers come back time after time is simply that they either have no choice (monopolies, such as BT) or don't see enough of a benefit to change to another company (apathy, or hassle vs. benefits)?

I agree with a lot of the answers that you and others have come up with, but I wonder if we are reading too much into our customer's satisfaction - after all, people can and will often put up with a lot before they can be bothered to do something about it - the 'dirty fork' principle applies (apologies to Monty Python)

Bob

Hi Bob

The ‘loyalty’ to which you refer is called Hostage Loyalty. It is a well known and documented phenomena. Although not obvious, it is the ‘feeling’ of being a ‘hostage’ (through either actual or inferred threat or fear) that is the determining factor in its description. When I talk about satisfaction and the choices, I am making the assumption that the individual is unencumbered by the above or driving toward it.

Let me ask you a question? The last time your bank called you and offered you something did not a, “what’s in it for them” thought go through your mind? That for me means that you are not, and can never be, a true advocate for that business.

Your last point is of course very valid – people do indeed put up with a lot. The simple fact that only 4 out of 100 complain (IBM) is in itself evidence of this. However, does this mean we should not try and appease or improve the lot the 96%? The fact is Bob that if these 100 people were your customersthey would not be spending as much as they could as they would be seeking satisfaction by testing others for the feeling of satisfaction they require by taking their custom elsewhere. Putting in place my philosophies and actions will see a massive increase in business not just from the 100, but every one of your customers. QED!

David

I've read through this topic that moves between customer sat, loyalty and being taken hostage. Working in a call centre environment myself, I see that our customers have little choice in using our service (they do have a web site to consult instead) andour customer sat is fairly high but I often wonder if we are asking the right questions.
As a user of call centres, I almost always feel a total hostage. Although I have had some good experiences and got what I wanted, the way I got there was imposedupon me and I was at the mercy of some inexperienced person on the other end of the line. Customer satisfaction is not necessarily getting what you want. That can be achieved. Customer satisfaction is getting what you want in a way that is acceptable to you.
A lot of call centre staff are inexperienced and I would say that the biggest sense of frustration that I get (other than listening to ridiculously long IVR messages with mutliple layers)is when I get told "I'll have to talk to my supervisor" or "I'll have to check on that". Music and minutes later I get my response but I am not satisfied.
Customer satisfaction stems from efficient, confident, caring call staff who leave you feeling good and with no sense of having wasted your time.

Hi Gill,

Welcome to CallCentreVoice; it's always nice to 'see' new faces :-)

Anyway, to your point. You said: "As a user of call centres, I almost always feel a total hostage". I think the satisfaction issue is interesting - a lot of the problems as I see it stem from the fact that call centre operators are often 'pigeonholed' into particular roles, scripts or campaigns. This is a very distinct, compartmentalised approach. The problem is that we as 'users' don't necessarily fit into the categories as designed and adopted by the call centres (see this thread for discussions on compartmentalisation and menu design).

In other words, Ias a user have an objective, but it is slightly ill-defined with regard to the call centre topography. Therefore, I either have to modify my objective (annoying) or accept that my route to 'satisfaction' will be rocky. Neither option is of course to mysatisfaction and I have a negative impression of the whole process.

Your point about 'experience' is both an interesting point and a contentious one. In my experience this boils down in part to the compartmentalisation issue - it's about ownership of a problem, a task, it's about responsibility - and in part to the 'bottom line', i.e. targets, deadlines and the path of least resistance to either. The best way to avoid this is to change from the top down, in other words the management red-tape must change which will trickle-down to influence the entire organisational ethos.

Am I on the right track with this, would you say?

John

Hi Gill. Welcome to CCV. Are you in Portsmouth too?

The keys to the tissues you talk about is in your last sentence, “Customer satisfaction stems from efficient, confident, caring call staff who leave you feeling good and with no sense of having wasted your time.”

You mention inexperience and how that makes you feel. Think about it again but go deeper this time. Is it really that they ask, or is it the manner in which they let you know? Let me explain.

If someone asks me a question which to answer I have to seek assistance I may say, “I will have to ask my supervisor.” The manner in which I say that phrase can ranges from the negative dull, disinterested ‘you’ve put me out, what about my stats’ kind of way to a very positive implied ‘I care about delivering you great service so I’m going to ask my supervisor as I’m not sure and I would be mortified if you went away with the wrong answer’ approach.

You are so right when you talk aboutsatisfaction. Its not simply about getting what you want, you have to be feel good about the manner in which it is delivered too.

Using the words you have in your last sentence means you have already identified exactly what it is you have to have your team do and behave to provide real customer satisfaction to your customers. Regardless of the facts, delivering service that encompasses your points will mean that the people that call you will NOT FEEL like hostages.

The only wayyou can make people FEEL good is by developing rapport with them. This is done by ensuring each of your team puts themselves in the shoes of the caller. This will make them look at what it is they do and say so that it is tailored each time to the individual concerned and their unique needs.

The real surprising thing is that this takes no time at all once people get into it. It means listening and exploring more at the beginning of an interaction but then total call length is shorter due to the much closer understanding and, in my view more importantly, everybody involved ends up feeling real satisfaction. Staff feel better as they have ‘connected’ and feel that they have ‘made a difference’ and customer feel that staff actually care enough to listen and deal with them as individuals.

John is of course right about scripts etc as well as the culture of a business needing to change from the top down. That however is always a longer term proposition frought with political difficulties.This way, 'Just Doing It', it makes a difference to those who matter most (customers and staff) immediately.

David

Hi David,John and Gill.

Excellent posts.The only way we can deliver satisfaction is by putting our heart and soul into the interaction. Unless the CSR believes in what he is conveying he can never be convincing. when it comes to customer care what scores over everything is the ability to lend your ear to someone who has something to say ( Listening). Job done with lot of passion always leads to success. If each individual in a call centre does his his job with passion then the customers get not satisfaction but delight and ecstasy.Hope every agent in the industry reads these posts and improve themselves.

Vedula

Thanks V.

Can I take your last comment one stage further... Lets hope each CSR tells their MD about what it is we can help them achieve. After all we have to eat too.

David

Hi David. Do you think that the CSR's would feel that senior staff would really be willing to listen to what they think ? I think there may be a stigma about approaching the MD, especially in bigger companies.

Possibly an anonymous approach might be less scary to the CSR's ?

WW

Good point William and thanks for raising it.

I have dealt with many MDs and I can honestly say that the overwhelming majority of them enjoy talking to people 'on the ground' as they feel it aids their awareness and so positively influences their decision making process.

You are right of course. MDs invariably have an air of 'unapproachability' about them but this has often been created or cultivated by those immediately below them - company politics certainly springs to mind as one reason.

What we all have to remember is that regardless of whether you are the MD or a part time Cleaner you are working towards the same end - the sucess of the business. So, so long as what you have to say is open honest and constructive no one should ever be afraid to talk to the MD. The only thing to come from an open, honest and constructive chat is good.

David

One idea for getting the information you need is to care demonstratively about your customers by picking up the phone and making a call to them.

A simple, "We just wanted to find out how we're doing for you and get a feel for your satisfaction;do you have a moment for me?" will result in a shocked customer. Usually, if you're calling, it's because of some transaction tha tis being currently executed.

What will happen is, the most important factors regarding satisfaction with your company will rise to the top. You catch someone in their busy day, be sure to keep it simple for them. What rises to the top is the cream.

By spending time to quote and paraphrase your customer's response to the open-ended satisfaction question -even tell them, "I'm writing this down." - will encourage them to speak what rises to the top.

My feeling is to avoid surveys. They only anticipapte what you think you need to know and leave no room for what the customer wants to say. Plus it bores them to tears.

As a call center, you might wish to offer outbound services such as this to your current clients. If you don't want to re-invent the wheel, check out the 'Courtesy Call' Form and Formula being offered at www.Teleconnecting.com.

BTW, I think David Newton-Dines is a genius and John Clark might well be an angel of some sort.

@ Your Service,
LoriAnne Hancock
Teleconnecting International

LoriAnne wrote:

"BTW, I think David Newton-Dines is a genius and John Clark might well be an angel of some sort."

Wow! Been called many things before (usually not pleasant norsuitable for family viewing on this forum ;-) but never and angel.

David will be flattered, I'm sure. You're too kind!

I agree with your points, though, but being a Saturday afternoon (following a busy week) I've nothing of value to add. Perhaps I'll defer to that noted Genius, Sir Isaac Newton-Dines :-)

St. John

JC, I’ll talk to YOU later…. ;-Q

Hi LoriAnne

I agree with what you say, however, I do feel it is critical that you stress when advocating this course of action that it has to be done with real/genuine/100%/total/utter/complete sincerity and commitment on the part of the person calling.

The reason I say this is if the person you call has the just the merest hint of your call being based simply on process or procedure (just doing the job rather than genuine interest) then not only will its responses be less that what is needed but indeed it may set back or undermine the relationship – the exact opposite to its designed objective.

Bear in mind also that your responses will be based on the questions you ask.Whilst that may seem a daft statement, what I actually mean is that it is better to ask ‘open’ questions to gather as many of their issues as possible rather than ask closed “Did we deliver on time?” questions which are restrictive. Typically, you use the closed question to delve deep into the issues raised by the open ones.

I do disagree with you on one thing you write though. This is paraphrasing. I believe one should write it verbatim as, unless especially trained, when you paraphrase you apply a mindset. During the initial conversation you both know what you mean as it has context, but it’s highly possible that you actually mean different things. When looked at subsequently it is further likely that, away from the original conversation and its contexts, someone else will apply yet another interpretation. This has been my experience in our business over a number of years and thousands of interactions so we record our interactions to guarantee we understand.

Appreciate the commentLA. Thank you.

David

Although I agree with most of what has been posted on this topic, there are a wide range of measurements for customer satisfaction, some good, some not so good and some only right for your particular circumstance. Unfortunatly they are all tempered with a number of elements some of which are as follows:

* Competition - Your satisfied/unsatisfied customer may defect simply because they have found a better offer for their particular circumstances.

* Loss of need - Your customer no longer needs the service you provide.

* Curiosity - Your customer is attracted by a companies brand/lifestyle implications and decides to try it out.

* Employment pressure - Not unemployment but people who are changing jobs and have to change their home telecoms/car/PC/Petrol supplier to fall in line with coporate policy.

All these are, individually, inconsequential (probably) however if you roll that up with customers who are just fed up/want a change/unreasonable etc. we find there is probably a vast number of people who are unaccounted for or immeasurable. Unfortunatly that is a fact we all have to face, we generally end up pleasing and rewarding loyalty from customers who probably wouldn't move if we swore at them down the phone!

Finally, the subject of CRM has been raised and as this is my particular bandwagon I feel I have to mention a few of my feelings on the subject.

CRM is in fact Ill conceived as a title. The fact is individually we can barely 'manage' our personal relationships, how would your partner feel if you started to plan every minute detail of your interaction over the coming year, with contingecies!

The public, our customers, are hardly any different so the best we can do is create a favourable environment for us to mutually conduct our business therefore the title Customer Environment Management is far more appropriate.

If we progress beyond the perception that we can manipulate our customers to operate within our environment instead of the other way round we will begin to address the needs of customers.

Now I will add one last thing to this subject and that one of the most basic principles of CRM (Yuk) is that less information on customes is best which flies in the face of Marketing Depatment bods who must have Garages and attics full of useless junk they have collected 'just in case I need it one day'. The Call Centre profession could do the world a favour by banging the drum of less is better as it means you guys getthe right information on customers without having to scroll through miles of c**p!

David

Hi David. Welcome to CCV.

If you don’t mind, I’d like to respond to your points with a view to clarifying some things.

Firstly the only reason for a company to exist is to maximise profitability. Having said that there is a single caveat to that which is - so long as it is NOT to the detriment of any stakeholder.

The maximisation of profitability can only do achieved via loyal customers. To engender loyalty you have to CONTINUALLY deliver true satisfaction and true satisfactionmeans ‘delivering’ at both an emotional and practical level. Part of that practical delivery is ensuring that your ‘deal’ is appropriate for your customer. What this means is that if your customer feels they can get a ‘better deal’ elsewhere you are not delivering to them a personalised service. Lastly, it’s a simple fact of business life that ‘price’ NEVER comes first in the priorities of a buyer. Over the last 20 years (yeh I’m a old git) I have never seen it higher than 5th and often as low as 7th.

Loss of need – Indeed a valid reason however, this is something OUTSIDE of the control of the individual.

Curiosity – once again David it all comes back to the provision of a persoanalised experience. If you receive attention clearly demonstrating that a company cares about you, and ‘occasionaly’ an appropriate personalised surprise, why would anyone be curious? Curiosity as an emotion is indicative of something missing. So, find outand plug that gap.

Employment pressure. – Indeeda valid reason however, this is once again something OUTSIDE of the control of the individual.

Lastly you make the point that customers get fed up etc. All this kind of thing indicates is that their needs are neither understood nor met. We are,despite recent events, all human beings. We each have the same biological reaction to emotions and moreover we all want the same basic things from life regardless of our race colour or creed. The real issue under discussion here is whether or not we are treated in a ‘formulaic’ manner. If we are, we experience everything you talk about and business gets what it always got because it always does what it always did. Make no mistake David, some customer do stay regardless of how you treat them. However theterm for this is HOSTAGE loyalty and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they be considered loyal as they will not be an advocate of the business.

Regarding CRM, sounds like you’ve met my ex wife!

I personally don’t feel it entirely inappropriate. What I do feel is that CRM has been deployed by lots of businesses who have been told (or believe) that they can use it to replace people when what it offers is a comprehensive support mechanism so that people can be do what they do best rather than trying to remember what Mr Smith bought 5 years ago.

Largely I agree with you on the ‘less is better’ however if I may I‘d modify the statement slightly to “more appropriate is better.” Agree with you to that it would be great as a rallying call.

David

This forum has been brilliant. Although I haven't participated (having come in rather late), It has really made me reassess my beliefs around the topic. Thank you to Vedula for initiating, and also to John and DND.

regards Lyn

Lyn

Glad we could be of some assistance. On behalf on all of us thanks. It's this kind of feedback that has driven us to participate as we have. I'm sure you'll find plenty more once you dig deep into the site. Happy hunting.

Kind regards

David