Contact centres and basic skills.

We have in the last 9 months seen a proliferation in posts
of the nature "I've just got a job doing xxxc, can oyou please tell me how
to do this job. Oh and at teh same time send me all the spreadsheets and
tools you've spent years develooping for free. Thanks!"

At the same time as most of these topics have already been covered and
are accessable by simple use of the SEARCH function (Learn folks!) other
more serious problems are appearing.

In this time it has become evident that employers in the market are
taking on staff for these roles without establishing if the candidate
can do the job, either that or we have some very good actors around.

In this time I'm finding the job market stagnated by the line ' You need XX year
experiance on YY WFM package'.

I used to be of the mind that 'Open Source' was good, what I knew and had written
could be shared for the betterment of the industry, with one or two exceptions I've
been lucky to get a 'Thank you'. I'm a lot more cynical, a little older and sadder now.

A lot of time goes into developing a RPM tool / Marketing model / Leads tracking system
and all the other bit's I've done.

It being taken for granted that 'Dave'll build / find / send me something' has now
lead to a point where it's not fun anymore.

I myself have now had enough of supplying hard earned information and tools.

If you need it there are pleanty of companies that will supply the stuff I have, you'll find prices start at around £500 for basic stuff upward.

Thanks to everyone here. It's been fun.

DaveA

I can empathise Dave, as you know I've said it on this site many times before. I quickly learnt not to give away anything that was valuable/saleable in the marketplace. It happens all the time on training forums, someone wanting someone else to do the hard work for them.
However just because I (or you) refuse there are a million people behind us who will continue to offer their working methods and company documents for free (as we've seen on your recent posts).

I wish I knew the solution because I'd offer more but not without payment....if only there was some mechanism in place on this site......

On my bathroom wall there is one of those old Dali Llama sayings (if you believe that balonie) "Share your knowledge, its a way of becoming immortal".

I still agree with it but only in certain areas of life, business is one where I say share, but not without a pricetag!

Dave,

That last sentence looks a little final.

Your entries enrich this site, I'm sure most of the usual contributors are of the same opinion and neither do we see you as a source of freeware (I hope).

Where else will we learn about innovative products such as O-Mail.

Dont stop contributing.

It's a sad day when a valued member and friend chooses to leave. I understand, and from personal experience I feel that sometimes a self-imposed clean break is refreshing.

As I've told Dave, the door remains open, and I will miss his sage advice as co-pilot and second-in-command at the helm.

John

Dave,
Being helpful, isn't all its cracked up to be, if it were more people would do it.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with everyone here, I know it gets to feel a little redundant when they could just search and find what they were looking for...'seek and ye shall find', but sadly few have managed that art of clicking the 'Search' button.

Your contributions in word, deed and tools are appreciated by all of the serious members (Ok I am sure I have offened thousands by now).

Your frustration is evident in your post and I can appreciate it. Take a break, kick your dog (only mataphorically...if you have a metaphorical dog), have a pint and I hope at the end of the day or when the beer runs out you will come back and share your insights and point of view with all of us.

Oh, if I didn't say it before...Thank You.

Colin

Dave,

Whilst probably appreciating your departure is probably as a result of some of my posts, please rest assured that I am taking notice of what you have said and taken your comments "fully" on board....hence the times of the day that I post on here..

I would like to personally thank you for the advice you have given me to my posts....and that indeed is the reason why a forum exists....

I will for one certainly indeed miss your posts.

Regards

Tim

Dave,

I appreciate that position you are in...and certianly feel that the post was aimed primarily at myself (pls correct me if I am wrong).

I would like to reply to the email so that you can gauge a better understanding.

I work for a contact centre as a resource analyst..my background is as a performance manager....the problem was that in my 1st week in the role.....the gentlemen who did the role..did not do a handover and left the contact centre.as you can appreciate in a catch 22 situation..

I was given the role given my 7 years contact centre experience with one of the UK's biggest Top 3 outsourcers in various different roles.

When I took on the role I took a good look at my skills...and decided I wanted to develop into the role..is that wrong thing?..Is it wrong to want to develop?....

In the past few weeks since I have been on the forum I have been nothing but thankful of the help and support especally yourself have given to me as a "newbie"..

I certainly have taken on board your feedback, I do expect support from colleagues...that is the whole reason for the forum...

If you feel I have offended you in any way...then please accept my apologies....however the posts and time I have put into this forum has been a way of developing my skills for the job..

I'm sure you would appreciate support in the same position.

Regards

Tim

This isnt meant to be an ad but it could look like one, although I have no association with the company concerned.

Given my job title and the nature of the postings above and knowing no company can reasonably expects to develop its staff for nothing, as a training professional I feel compelled to help. Presumably some sort of personal development plan or training plan is in place and unstructured forum based learning forms part of that process. Most training departments wont leave learners to their own devices - learners being notorious for not knowing what they need to know or how best to learn it. Most training departments would advocate some sort of structured learning as part of a PDP, with this in mind it might be worth considering a course for resourcing specialists at

http://www.planningforum.co.uk/events/Foundation%20Training%20for%20Resourcing%20Specialists.htm

As Dave surmises this course for Resourcing Specialist skills comes in at £500 per day.

All to often training depts are reminded that training is a peripheral activity a 'nice to have' if we've got the time and budget, something we do to agents but not our management. The real cruch comes when there is a skills gap, is the company prepared to pay to fill that gap? Or shall we leave unskilled staff to their own devices and carry on regardless - do we even have a training strategy for management?

When the solution is training the call centre industry (unlike some other industries) is one where the answer is often "What? You mean we have to pay for it? I cant deal with that now I'm trying to run a business".

That's okay. The PPF and CCV have much in common in our aims, and though we usually disallow plugs for commercial products and services (into which this falls), I feel that the services that the PPF offer to our industry at large are superb and so your post is definitely in the best interests of this community.

John

Dave, very sorry to see you go but I fully understand and support your reasons; the site's knowledge base is now considerably poorer, which is a great shame.

We all have a genuine desire to help people if they help themselves...
This means if they assist themselves in their learning but require further help to build expertise; it does not mean help themselves to other peoples skills and knowledge. It may be better to give than to receive, but this is a forum not a charity!

People taking jobs that they do not have the skills to perform dilute their job value and the industry skill set. We all have to start somewhere, but we need to be honest about our capabilities and take an appropriate entry level; people who take on jobs they have little or no capability in soon end up out of work.

Advice to people wishing to develop new skills in a new role... be honest about your capability, with yourself and your future employer. Do not accept a role outside of your skills base unless you are certain that the necessary support is in place to develop you in the role.


"Dave found it hard to unwind in his retirement"

will miss you very much.

Thanks for everything

Z x

All

I have watched this string develop over the day with some sadness.

Sadness that an active contributor to the forum now feels that he has not received the due recognition for his assistance and that he is being taken advantage of.

Sadness that a person, new to resource planning, and in desperate need of help is being vilified for firstly asking for help and then, having received it, asking for more.

Sadness that too often we criticise the reason why a question is being asked rather than either just answering it, or choosing to ignore it.

Sad though I am, I shall remain with CCV, I shall help where I can because
· I still remember when I didn't know an erlang from and ACD
· I shall remain because I was that guy who had a resource plan "dumped" on me by an uncommunicative predecessor
· I shall remain because I've worked for that company that expected me to pick up resource planning in a day and that company now respects the time and the expertise that goes into our roles
· And I shall remain because I don't believe in pulling the ladder up behind me.

Come one, come all, if we can help we should, if we can't then we should point you in the right direction.

Ask what you like!

Eamon Goodfellow
Business Analyst (formerly resource analyst novice)
The Capita Group
eamon.goodfellow@capita.co.uk

Excellent Reply Eamon.

As I have said to Dave in other posts...i thank him for his time...and indeed his contribution also...It would be easier if I left the forum from reading between the lines.

Youre post Eamon..si the exact scenario I was put in...

>>>>Sadness that too often we criticise the reason why a question is being asked rather than either just answering it, or choosing to ignore it.

I support this astute observation and have I hope (over the years although I'm still prone to it) improved. No one forces you to respond or keep giving but communication is infectious.

The difficulty lies in the medium, its a forum, not a simple question and answer site (like some websites) as such the underlying causes, trends and more peripheral reasons are always examined and discussed, its the very function of a dicussion forum to do this.

Maybe we're all deviants?

Have to agree with, simple answers never come from simple questions.

Take last weeks talking point using MP3 files for storing appraisals - technical answer required, what do I do, question the ethics.

Still what about united, 4 in a row against the soft southern reds.

Without getting into advertising, but then it was from there that I ended up here - the Planning Forum and it's discussion forum is the place for asking resourcing type questions. The basis for that organisation is to improve the planning functions through share and learn. It's a real community with face to face as well as online sharing, for those wanting to cut their teeth or improve their skills it's the place to be.

John, not saying this site isnt a community, it is, just look at the reaction to Dave's departure, but the Planning Forum is a breeding ground for planning management specialists.

I have to challenge your thinking here though Eamon,

There's a fine line that needs to be drawn around the subject of help and advice when an open forum crosses the boundaries with the business world.



What you see as help and Tim sees as knowledge sharing others see as saleable consultancy advice..just ask some of the consultancies on the site (always trying to lure contributors away to sell this knowledge)

When you were learning it did your company ever pay for the advice/knowledge/learining you received? (if not why not?)

Now that you have learnt it do you give it to your company for free? (No you are paid a salary)

When your company offers your advice (skills) to clients do they give it for free (No)

Does you company freely offer its or your skills to clients who dont give their names? (No)

Its all very well saying lets all help each other but you dont offer your own skills and knowledge to others (your employers) for free why then is it ok to give it away on the web for free? - For some bizarre reason this is regarded to be outside work and therefore I/you give my advice freely. I dont buy this reasoning.

It's all a bit mixed up if you ask me. Its like asking to professional musician to do a concert in the local village hall, no one else has the skills, everyone wants to be entertained but they all expect him/her to do it for free.

In my opinion (I can only give mine) I believe that the purpose of this site is to share information, and on the whole that is what is done happily. What people do complain about (and I for one have) is doing other peoples jobs for them. I think that every body is willing to assist people in finding the information they require or in many circumstances giving them the information. But recently some of the requests have become very specific and its obvious that the writers have used this forum as the first port of call.

Again I believe that if somebody is asking for very specific information they should at least be willing to show how far they have got themselves and phrase the questions so that it shows they have been working on it. I for one am much happier answering questions that start:

I am trying to do xxxx, I have attempted it by method , and but not suitable for my requirements, are ther any other options.

This shows that people are at least thinking before writing.

If I threaten to quit I don't feel I would be getting the same levels of attention, this is making me feel some what unwanted ;-)

Jason

I'm not a prolific poster, but a pretty prolific reader of CCV.

It feels that we have come such a long way since one could not see the posts for the thinly-disguised ads.

Now it does seem as if more and more people are asking for help too soon in the process. I am shamefully untechnical and the skill and knowledge exhibited by the likes of Dave and Darryl leave me entirely in awe. I have also been landed with jobs I was ill-equipped to fulfil for whatever reason and I have turned to forums for help and advice, however I have only looked for signposts - 'here is where you should be looking' and research material - 'this is a good book/resource' occasionally a specific but only when that unavoidable thing happens when you type in what you think will work and it doesn't, no obvious reason - it just doesn't, usually because the moon is in the wrong house or something, but someone has seen it before and can tell you what your own brain can't fathom.

Between most of the senior posters, over the years, enough information has been imparted to fill a large tome. Costing LARGE MONEY.

I do hope that you have made some lucrative contacts along the line, if I needed a consultant I would know where to look, so from that point of view your gratis work has not gone unheeded.

I really should learn to make my stream of consciousness flow, rather than leap from thought to thought with the agility of a mountain goat. But hey, I'm not perfect.

I'll miss the penguin, come back soon Dave.

Lynne

Does anyone need a web developer?



John